Revolution ? : to vote or not to vote that is the question : two intellectual beards, Brand and Paxman lock hairs on democracy and poverty

I sent an email to some friends hoping that they would find the link to a recent interview on BBC2 between Russell Grant and Jeremy Paxman of interest to them. My friends' responses to the interview was so thoughtful and entertaining I've brought them together as a combined blog post. I hope they don't mind.
Here is the link to the interview at   Newsnight   You may have to move the cursor along the time line since the interview takes place in the middle of the programme. If you live outside of the United Kingdom, you can find it here :   Paxman Brand interview

Responses to the Paxman - Brand interview

Dominic McNally writes,

I am also glad that the discontent with politicians and the ever increasing rapid growth of inequality seems to be somehow crystallising into something that is becoming more and more difficult to ignore. I just had a friend over for dinner who works for the governmental department of energy. From what I gathered from her most of the meetings between the politicians are not actually about how they can improve anything for the general population but just to decide between them (seriously) how their policies can be different as they don't want to be seen to agree on anything (like something that may benefit those worse off) as they just constantly focus on the election in 2 years time. So, in effect a coalition that is actively trying not to work together no matter if something is a good idea or not, actually not focusing on the job in hand but just securing their jobs for the future through different rhetoric.... It doesn't make a blind bit of difference which party between the top 3 you choose from as it's the system as a whole that needs an overhaul not the policies within it.... anyway I'm digressing... 

But I am also concerned, as others have mentioned, that there is a lack of ideas to what may be an alternative to the current system. I am puzzled as to why groups are not getting together to debate this (politicians, business leaders, bankers)... many of these people are also concerned about the out of control inequality and the future effects of this. I would hope there would be think tanks set up to come up with the new ideas.... I fear the excuse would be that the markets are global and any changes of system would have to be adopted by all countries to work, but I would think that a new fairer system set up by a prominent country such as ours would be an example to others and public pressure would no doubt follow....

Anyway, I'm rabitting on a bit and it's late on a Sunday evening so probably not making much sense..

My first idea to the think tank would be setting up some kind of correlation between what the profits companies on the stock exchange make with the amount of people they need to employ.  'x amount of profit = c% of workers they need to employ'.... something set in legal terms along these lines. For, as far as I see it, whilst companies are fighting to grow ever bigger to survive to pay dividends to their shareholders you are going to have a world where workers are not seen as people.

Now, I'm no economist so wouldn't begin to be able to contemplate the effects this would have, that's why I need the think tank...

I do believe that Joseph E. Stiglitz (who used to be chief economist in the world bank) in his book 'the Price of Inequality' sets out the serious problems in the free-market and does propose some changes and he's much more qualified than a trainee social worker, but I couldn't tell you yet what these proposals are as I've only just bought the book from that great contributor to a fairer society; Amazon!

...enough said.

Stuart Russon comments

I liked what Russell Brand said about not voting. I have (secretly) practised not voting all my life for all general elections as I don't think it matters as much as people tell me it does ("people died for you to have that right" etc.etc). I don't not vote lightly. I have been a member of a political party in the past and I am still a Union member. For me one of the most telling results for any election is the turnout. How many people did not feel engaged enough, involved enough, represented enough to the point where they just didn't think it was worth it? 

I'm with them.... Even the apathetic ones that can't be bothered. Thats a true reflection of their feelings about the election and is as important as any other persons. I have even discussed setting up a group with likeminds to encourage people not to vote if they don't want to, a Don't Vote campaign. Don't be brow-beaten or bullied into voting if you don't want to. There are lots of more effective things we can do with regard to political activism and action than vote in an election that offers no real choices. 

The most effective use of my vote is to not use it and for my statistic to appear with all the others who, for whatever reason, didn't think voting was worth it. Whether its a conscientious (pause to spell check) decision or they just couldn't be bothered it is a valid, real and honest response to the hype and garbage that spews out at us at election times (and not just at election times). 

And if more people don't vote then the mandate for whatever political party in power to work on behalf of corporations and protecting shareholders dividends is further diminished. At the last election 35% of the electorate didn't vote, more than all political parties except one. If that number increases then surely it will have to be taken seriously and not just brushed off as a load of people that preferred to stay in and watch Jeremy Kyle than vote.

Anyway I'll leave it at that. I could say more. I have thought this through honest. 

I'll continue to not vote until I am given something to not not vote for.

Russell in his younger days : beard still growing

Noel Howard observes

 Now, you may think you need you need a revolution in the UK - you should come and live here for a while. Our last budget here three weeks ago sent a very clear message- don't get old,  have a few drinks or die!

On the voting, I'm very strong on this and at the risk of offending a few people I have to say I think it should be compulsory. After weeping, wailing and whining about how children were and are treated here in Ireland and insisting something had to be done only 33.5% voted in the Children's Rights Referendum last year.Democracy is the best worst system we have and I think proportional representation as we have here in Ireland is as good a flawed system as we can get. 

With all that said, politicians just amaze me sometimes. The few times I've been in our own parliament buildings here it has brought home to me that the atmosphere is certainly rarified and those who work there (politicians) lose all sight of reality when they get in the door.

Anyway that's my "truppence" worth. You certainly have raised a few hares.

Roj Lewis writes,

Paxman v Brand has been buzzing incessantly around my Facebook friends - all positive.
An absolutely enthralling interview and changed my entire perception of that 'upstart' Brand. For further reading I suggest Russell's bit in New Statesman http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/10/russell-brand-on-revolution You could say that it would make Russell for a surname - Bertram Russell - sit up and applaud! 

A not so hirsute Russell speaks on the BBC

Cynthia Cross remarks

I always spoil my paper – writing on it “Spoilt Paper- no effective vote possible” If enough people did that I think it would really make a statement.

Jeremy Millar observes

It was indeed a stirring encounter. I like Russell, he may have a self confessed narcissistic personality disorder but I am happy to indulge him. His writings are excellent as well, and his 'Booky Wook' is an entertaining read. He manages to connect broad political themes with the intensely personal experience of the interviewer and himself. In doing this he 'puts a stutter in the dominant narrative' and disarms/wrong foots people who can only think within the paradigms dictated by the elites.
This is exactly what we should be doing in our daily practice, speaking truth to power and asking decision makers and bean counters how they can sleep at night once we have informed them of the human cost of their dispassionate decisions. I feel strongly that we should consciously dispute and challenge the 'evidence base' at every turn therefore rendering decision making, particular to the child/family in front of us, rather than hiding behind the less than proven evidence base.
The new managerial approach to utilising the evidence base is an extremely clever slight of hand that ties s/w professionals to an extant body of knowledge that has been carefully filtered through the ideologies of the right and represented as truth. The real truths have been known by human kind since before the dawn of recorded history. These are that we are social beings programmed with empathy and concern for our fellow creatures. We are inherently fair and will look after our vulnerable and respect the wisdom of our elders, until powerful elites mess with our social relationships and introduce selfish ideologies.

John Stein notes,

Finally found a link to the interview I could watch.  Awesome.
The rich get richer.  And so much faster now...
And then…

John Burton comments

Just watched it and pleased not to have missed it. I think RB could consider voting Green but he's voiced a very widespread feeling more coherently than it's felt by the millions who have no hope. Good for him. I'm right behind him. We need the same revolutionary spirit in social care. 

Alison Watt writes
Wow! All power to Russell Brand - what a breath of fresh air someone saying those things coherently; I couldn't agree more with what he said about  the government, though I do vote, pointlessly as it happens - as for the majority of us. I had just been thinking the night before while listening to the radio in bed, that I'd rather listen to the Shipping News than Today in Parliament - it's shameful and a complete waste of our money the way they carry on. I didn't think much of Jeremy Paxman, though, his manner irritates me, which is why I don't often watch Newsnight.


Calum Strathie observes

Yes - you probably are off your rocker, but that's OK.  This fits in with my 'loose screw theory' in which I hypothesise that 95% of us have a screw (or a number of screws) loose, and that it is those who have their screws fully tightened who are the exceptions.  They're the odd balls, so we're in good company.  I've no evidence to back up this claim - its based on years of observation and dodgy thinking - but I feel that there could be a research project in there somewhere for a Phd student.

I'm going to break ranks here and admit that I do vote, but I never vote for the 'big' parties that Russell Brand was railing against. Where I can, I will cast my vote in favour of parties who stand for the same things that I believe in, even if they're 'no-hopers'.  I suppose its my way of making some sort of stand against the parties of vested interests.  I do agree with the sentiments expressed by RB and admire his passion, even though I don't think much of him as a comedian (I'm more of a Chuckle Brothers man myself!).  It was refreshing to hear someone express political ideas with passion and compassion - something that we never hear from the current crop of bland, smooth talking, ungenuine, insincere, on message, Oxbridge toffs who have never lived a life in the real world.  I really can't tell the difference between them all, whatever party they represent.  And sadly it is their parties that they represent and not us.  I don't feel represented in the slightest.

So, yes - you can count me in for the revolution!

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!

________________________________________________

Here is the text of my original  email :

Revolution? bring it on
Dear Everyone,

Here is something I wanted to share with you last night  but then I thought how embarrassing if I did this impulsively and people might think I'm off my rocker.  Actually they may have something there.  Well I've had a day to think about it and I still think it is right. Forgive me if I'm wrong. Just below is the email I was going to send you last night.

Dear Everyone,
I've waited up an hour knowing that I am reducing my sleep, and that Jackie has made me an appointment with the chiropodist at 9 am in Torquay tomorrow because I have criminally neglected my feet and if I don't make the appointment my life will be, if not fire and brimstone, at least frictive - I see my spell check says that's not a word but I'll keep it, I like it  - and this is all because last night (22.10.13)  a most significant comment about politics was broadcast on the TV. Certainly it was one of the most significant since the early 60s in the days of That Was The Week That Was. Reluctantly,  I do of course modify this with  "in my view."  The televisual event I refer to was aired on BBC2 Newsnight. It was an interview between Russell Brand  and Jeremy Paxman. Unlike TW3 this is not satire, more an expression of powerful, principled polemic. Some of you may like me know something of Jeremy Paxman, and though he acts the devil's advocate here, I believe he has some sympathy with what RB espouses. Sorry, I'm telling you what to think.

Here is the link to the whole programme. The interview lasts about 8 minutes.
If you're mad with me for putting you in this let me know or just ignore me.
Forgive me too if you've already seen the interview  and thought that it was...……well….not your cup of tea.
The link is   Newsnight   You may have to move the cursor along the time line since the interview takes place in the middle of the programme. If you live outside of the United Kingdom, you can find it here :   Paxman Brand interview